March 12th, 2007

Tables are allowed to be used…

On the WSG mailing list there is a great discussion at the moment - “Talking about tabular data”. Reading the posts from members I get the feeling that some people are almost afraid to use a table…

The question was how would you mark up:
President..................................John Smith
Vice-president.........................Janet Jones

Five years ago, 95% if not more of all web coders/ designers would have coded the example as a table without batting an eye-lid, however after the CSS revolution, people are very unsure whether it is ok to code a table as a table. They will instead code it as a defination list.

The question I guess we now have to ask is are people scared into not using tables that they do not even use them for their proper use, to display tabular data?

Tables are great for tabular data but not for styling a website. A good example is my Phantom collection that is displayed in yes a table…

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I’ve had this debate before, and I see no problem using a table for displaying data that needs to be displayed in columns, especially where there is both a horizontal and vertical relationship between the data. If it is they type of data you might display in an excel spreadsheet, then I consider a table a good candidate. An example might be the tally of sports team results. In the WSG example you mention, I think a table is probably not the best solution - I would also choose a definition list. The same goes for contact details such as:

Phone … +61 03 xxxxxx
Fax … +61 03 xxxxxx
Email … you@example.com

Comment by Jonathan Nicol — March 15th, 2007 @ 3:07 pm

I guess its easier to easier to code it as a definition list as all it is, is dh and dl. Were a table you have all the extra tags and garbage that makes the file size larger…

I still stand by the point that some people seem to be scared to use a table because of the css/ anti table revolution.

Good points and thanks for your input.

Comment by GermWorks — March 15th, 2007 @ 6:02 pm

I don’t think about it terms of how easy something is to code, but rather how semantically correct a solution is.

I agree that lots of people have taken the “tables are evil” mantra too literally, and think tables should be banished entirely. But as you rightly point out, they have a perfectly valid (no pun intended) place in the web designers arsenal - for representing tabular data.

Comment by Jonathan Nicol — March 16th, 2007 @ 6:17 am

But you got to admit that writing the data as a definition list is easier…

btw thanks for your input and comments, very enlightening.

Comment by GermWorks — March 16th, 2007 @ 9:43 am

Man. IMO CSS in not advanced enough to switch completely to divs. I still use tables for layout. CSS ist just not a finished technology, we have to wait.

Comment by Thomas — June 17th, 2007 @ 5:40 am

Yes I agree 110% Thomas. I still think that Tables has a place and that is for TABULAR data. That is what html was created for, to display tabular data for scientists etc

Comment by GermWorks — June 18th, 2007 @ 9:16 am

Over at the Veerles Blog she has two articles on how to style tables using CSS.

http://veerle.duoh.com/blog/comments/a_css_styled_table/
http://veerle.duoh.com/blog/comments/a_css_styled_table_version_2/

These are good because as discussed in the comments, tables are useful and so these tutorials will help you still style them to fit your style of website.

Comment by GermWorks — August 22nd, 2007 @ 10:30 am

Joe Dolson, one writer who I enjoy has done a quick analysis on tables vs CSS. Like I say no matter what you prove these dinosaurs will ignore the evidence but still, it is handy to know in case you get stuck in the argument.

http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/08/tables-or-css-layout

Comment by GermWorks — August 24th, 2007 @ 3:29 pm

Another article showing with examples on how to CSS with your data tabular tables..

http://www.netmag.co.uk/zine/develop/produce-perfect-tables

Comment by GermWorks — December 12th, 2007 @ 11:31 am

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